胜道起名网
The narrative that Kobe and MJ went hard defensively on every single possession in their mid-late 30’s needs to stop because it just isn’t true.
那些科比和乔丹30多岁以后依然每一个回合都认真防守的言论实际上可以结束了，因为这根本不真实。
I’ve seen a lot ofments/posts lately criticizing Lebron lately claiming that Kobe and MJ literally never ever took a defensive possession off. And that is just a straight up lie. Kobe had not played consistent defense since 2008, and was a sieve by 2013. While MJ was still a great defender during his second 3 peat, and he made all-defensive teams during that stretch. However, Scottie almost always took the tougher Match up night to night, and MJ was also known to take possessions off to conserve energy. Don’t believe me? Just watch highlights of the 98 finals, you’ll hear the announcers mention a handful of times that MJ’s resting on defense in order to conserve energy for the end of games.
Here’s the thing, if you are a 34 year old wing player and have carried a superstar offensive load for a decade plus, and you’re going to keep carrying that offensive load, you’re not going to be able to play elite defense every single possession.
There is plenty of shit to criticize lebron for, but there is no need to lie about Kobe and MJ in order to do it.
我最近看到好多批评勒布朗-詹姆斯的言论，他们说科比和乔丹不会放过任何一个防守回合。毫无疑问这就是个谎言，科比自从2008年以后防守就不太稳定了，2013年更是防守端的大漏洞。尽管乔丹在他第六个冠军的时候依旧是好防守球员，他当时也入选了最佳防守阵容，但是皮蓬每晚都在对阵最难防的球员，乔丹有的时候会在防守端偷懒来积攒能量。你不相信我？看看98年总决赛的高光时刻吧，你可以听到解说员多次提到乔丹在防守端休息以便能够积攒能量来结束比赛。
这就是事情的全过程，如果你现在34岁并且需要十几年承担一支球队的超级巨星级别进攻重担时，你是不可能在防守端保持同样强度的，你也不可能在每单个回合都打出精英级别的防守。
很多人都找这个点去黑勒布朗，但是实际上没必要拉科比和乔丹出来做黑他的借口。
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[–]watabadidea 632 points 1 day ago
If people are actually saying they “literally” never took a play off, they are obviously liars or idiots.
However, I think those people are the clear minority. Most people that I see are more of the opinion that Jordan and Kobe never looked so absolutley apathetic on defense for significant stretches similar to what they see (or perceive to see) from lebron.
如果他们仅从字面意义上解读，很明显他们就是骗子或者傻瓜。
然而我觉得这仅仅是少部分人，大部分都觉得科比和乔丹至少不像勒布朗这样对于防守端这么冷漠。
[–][LAL] Rick Foxmelperz 208 points 22 hours ago
Yup. OP is just criticizing those absurdments which deserved to not to be taken seriously.
湖人球迷：楼主只是在批判那些本不该当真的滑稽评论。
[–]SunsBaconKnight 163 points 20 hours ago
He’s attacking the extreme end of the other side of the spectrum to give credence to his argument. Tactic we see all too often nowadays.
太阳球迷：实际上他在攻击一些极端评论，并且为自己的攻击找一些论据，现在这种策略我们见得挺多的。
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[–]Skzshr129 56 points 20 hours ago
It’s disgusting and this thread should’ve been removed for that alone.
Jordan was 9 time All-Defense first team including ’96, ’97, and ’98, in his mid/late thirties.
LeBron has made it 5 times and the last time he did it he was 28 years young in a fucking Heat jersey and hasn’t been seen since.
实际上这个帖子应该被移出去的。
乔丹拿过就此最佳一防，其中包括了96/97/98三年，这三年他已经三十大几了。
勒布朗进过五次最佳一防，，但是上一次他进入最佳一防还要追溯到他28岁的时候，那个时候他还穿着热火的球衣呢，此后没进过防守阵容了。
[–]HeatNumber333 1231 points 1 day ago
Every 17-year old on here saw MJ and Kobe every game they ever played man what’s wrong with you.
热火球迷：现在连17岁的小孩子都能说自己看过乔丹和科比的每场比赛了，兄弟你还能说什么呢？
[–]HeatSmokingFrog 331 points 1 day ago*
Michael Jordan made the NBA All-Defensive First Team at 33, 34, and 35 years old though. I’m surprised people here are upvoting OP when you can do a simple Google search and see for yourself that Michael Jordan did in fact remain an elite defender throughout his mid 30s.
热火球迷：迈克尔-乔丹33,34,35岁的时候可是NBA最佳防守一阵的，我很震惊竟然还有同意楼主的意见，你们简单的谷歌一下就知道乔丹在他三十岁中段的时候依旧是精英级别的防守者。
[–]Pistonsthrowaway_5256 175 points 1 day ago
MJ conserved energy like LeBron does, but he was still a consistently excellent defender when you look over the whole season. Also LeBron hasn’t always guarded the opponent’s best player either so not sure why that’s even a factor
活塞球迷：乔丹确实和勒布朗一样在蓄力，但是看他一整个赛季他依然是一个稳定的完美防守者，勒布朗也不用防对手最好的球员啊，所以我不确定这是不是一个影响因素。
[–]ouyinwei 226 points 1 day ago
Am not expecting Lebron to play elite defense. B4 that he should at least play some defense.
我不期待勒布朗能打出精英级别的放手了，但是他至少能打出点防守来吧。
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[–][GSW] Klay ThompsonMrVanillaIceTCube 567 points 1 day ago
I’ve seen a lot ofments/posts lately criticizing Lebron lately claiming that Kobe and MJ literally never ever took a defensive possession off.
That’s a strawman. People criticize Kobe’s All-Defense selections in his 30s all the time.
They definitely took plays off, but they didn’t stand around on defense except for a few plays the entire game. It’s degrees. They weren’t perfect but they were better than LeBron on that end.
you’re not going to be able to play elite defense every single possession.
Also a strawman. No one is asking LeBron to be a lockdown defender every play, most people have realistic expectations for a 34 year old 16 year vet. But if you literally stand around doing the Harden statue impression, you’re gonna get shit for it. Especially as the best player in the world and someone chasing GOATdom.
“我看过很多评论指责勒布朗，说科比和乔丹没放弃过一个防守回合。”
杠——这不对啊，人们在科比三十岁以后一直在质疑他的一防身份。
他们肯定在防守端有些放松，但是他们不会整场都严格防守，除非有某些重大的比赛，这一点我同意，他们不完美但是他们在防守端要比詹姆斯强不少吧。
你不能要求每个回合都打出精英级别的防守吧。
杠——没人要求每个回合勒布朗都化身防守大闸，人们对于一个打了16个赛季的34岁老兵是很有现实期待的，但是如果你想当年哈登一样木桩，你肯定是会被喷的，尤其你可是这个世界上最棒的篮球运动员，并且你要追逐史上最佳的王座啊。
[–]ThunderBanichi-aiji 163 points 1 day ago
To me the problem isn’t taking plays off on defense, its blaming other guys for it. Feels like LeBron isn’t a good leader for this young core, but hes too big a presence for anyone else to step up as a leader.
雷霆球迷：对于我而言问题不在于他不放手，而是他责怪其他人不防守，感觉勒布朗在年轻球员面前不是一个好的领袖，但是他确实太强以助于一定要成为一个领袖。
[–]LakersAfk94 66 points 23 hours ago
Leaving guys wide open on multiple possessions isn’t a problem?
湖人球迷：让对手多次在大空位竟然不是问题？
[–]LakersAfk94 18 points 23 hours ago
Kobe was guarding the point the season he tore his Achilles. He really wasn’t taking that many plays off.
湖人球迷：在他撕裂跟腱的那个赛季实际上还是认真防守的，他没有放掉很多回合。
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[–]Bullssuper_sayanything 94 points 1 day ago
I guess, but Michael was barely losing. If he was losing, he was pissed off. If he was pissed off, he was playing D.
我猜乔丹认真防守都是输球的时候，如果他输球，他就会脸黑，如果他脸黑了，他就开始防守了。
[–][LAL] Kobe Bryantfrodounchained 190 points 1 day ago
Everyone takes possessions off nobody thinks kobe and mj went hard every possession but they did put the effort in when needed.
湖人球迷：没有人觉得科比和乔丹每个回合都防得很认真，但是他们会在需要的时候努力防守啊。
[–]AllureFX 64 points 1 day ago*
This is true about Kobe but not MJ. You’re equating the 2 but Jordan had a ridiculous motor. He wasn’t going 100% every possession in the RS but he didn’t take playspletely off like every other wing did in that age
I doubt you even watched MJ. In 98 Pippen missed over 40% of the season to start the season and they went 25-10 with MJ and had the #4 defensive rating in those games (only behind Spurs, Knicks and Cavs) and MJs individual defensive rating was 99 in those games (also averaging 2 steals and nearly a block) which was stronger than the teams average by 3.7pts.
And this was MJ at the same age Lebron is now. No one was criticizing MJs deserved all defense selections like they did with Kobe
Comparatively the Lakers defense has gone toplete shit after Lebron returned and Lonzo got injured. I believe they’ve been bottom 5 in defense for a while now which would be on the level of teams literally tanking lmfao
科比确实如此，但是乔丹可不是这样的，你可以把勒布朗和科比等同，但是乔丹是另一个荒唐的存在。他可能不会每个回合都倾尽全力，但是他不会像自己那个年纪的锋线一样完全放空一个人。
我猜你们都没怎么看过乔丹打球，98赛季皮蓬缺了40%的比赛而他们取得了25胜10负，他们在乔丹的带领下取得了联盟第四的防守效率（仅次于马刺、尼克斯和骑士），乔丹的单人防守效率是99（场均2个抢断以及接近1个盖帽），这要比球队的平均值还低3.7分。
那个时候的乔丹和勒布朗一样大哦，没人像质疑科比一样质疑乔丹的最佳防守阵容。
在勒布朗回归，鲍尔受伤之后湖人的防守和屎一样，我相信防守倒数第五的球队实际上应该摆烂了。
编译：海上生明月
